PCB ordered to be Matt Black but came with no colour
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koosjr 2 months ago
OK, So I ordered 50 face plates and selected the colour to be matt black, but it arrived with no colour. Order Number [P5-2014244A](javascript:void(0); "P5-2014244A"). On my order form, the product details is displayed as follows, so there is no doubt that I placed the order correctly. Gerber file:Gerber\_PCB\_Hammond\_Faceplate\_20190309191612\_P5 Build Time: 5-6 days Layers: 2 Dimension: 80mm*40mm PCB Qty: 50 PCB Thickness: 1.6 Impedance: no PCB Color: Matte Black Surface Finish: HASL(with lead) Copper Weight: 1 Gold Fingers: No Material Details: FR4-Standard Tg 130-140C Panel By JLCPCB: No Flying Probe Test:Random Test Castellated Holes:no ![2019-04-25 17.00.51.jpg](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/jz42Vr4nIQGK0TrDeqeKyD8g3PHe6IsodbghyVpq.jpeg) I have by now ordered a couple of hundred of similar items and it came out fine each time. I am now asked to order it again, so it seems the wrong order will not be rectified by JLCPCB? What I do not understand is that a PCB like this pass final inspection and the inspector somehow miss this very obvious problem.
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lilyyang000 2 months ago
@ [koosjr](https://easyeda.com/koosjr) Thank you so much for your feedback, there is a mistake understood for your file, since there is no solder mask layer ,no traces and no drill in it, they thought that it is a bare pcb  with  FR4 material. If you want to make it with solder mask for both sides, you had better to add copper layer and solder mask layer in your file, thanks! ![image.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/ZyEzAGxwa9lw2VZj1GECrkf5k8whAhgRJKIQ8DQU.png)
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koosjr 2 months ago
Why? I never ever had to do that before. You are inconsistent and you also did not clarify your misunderstanding with me.
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lilyyang000 2 months ago
@ [koosjr](https://easyeda.com/koosjr)  It is due to there is no copper layer and solder mask layer in your file, in that case, some people will think that there is no solder mask needed, but some will. So to avoid the issue, you had better to add the solder mask layer in your file, or there will be the same issue in the future. Besides, if there is solder mask layer designed in your file, you can also make a note that there it needed to be covered with solder for both sides, then we will make it for you. Thanks! ![image.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/5i3ah9XxQWHsuq1eBrB6bPrAOlLmJw2sxCczQNdx.png)
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koosjr 2 months ago
Lilly. By now I have given JLCPCB numerous chances. Previously PCB's that you did not like, was simply removed from the order without any customer interaction. I am really tired for your nonsense and the fact that there is simply no customer interaction when there is a confusion. You simply make as you wish. I can see absolutely no point in your workflow for either the approval of boards, and secondly then your apparent quality check. I say again. I have ordered HUNDREDS of these face plates in a color of my choice and never had I needed to follow these steps that you now require. I selected a colour and the board came out that way. I honestly wish the old EasyEDA PCB ordering system was still in place. JLCPCB does not want to interact with customers to ensure orders are correct. Koos
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koosjr 2 months ago
Could you please then explain why the following PCB's came out in black and not my last order? [Y126-2014244A](javascript:void(0); "Y126-2014244A") [Y59-2014244A](javascript:void(0); "Y59-2014244A") [Y42-2014244A](javascript:void(0); "Y42-2014244A") [Y16-2014244A](javascript:void(0); "Y16-2014244A") [Y10-2014244A](javascript:void(0); "Y10-2014244A") [Y7-2014244A](javascript:void(0); "Y7-2014244A") [Y6-2014244A](javascript:void(0); "Y6-2014244A") So my point is: If 7 out of 8 orders came through fine, with all 8 ordered in the same way, then surely I am not at fault here.
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pcb_Service 2 months ago
``` ``` Dear Koosjr, Thank you so much for your long-term support to JLCPCB.This is Eunice from JLCPCB after-sales group. I am so sorry for the problem and delay caused to you, we have forward this issue to our manager and we will take relative action to improve our service. I have checked your order with Lily and our factory, it is a negligence of us to not have enough comunication with you about the design, we have taken serious action to the people who responsible for your order. But do please forgive him, sometimes things will happen. What JLCPCB can do is to ensure 99% order perfectly finished, we can not ensure 100%, hope you can understand us, apologize for the mistake caused to your order again. As far as I can see, we have arranged the reproduction for your order by a fast turnaround sevice, it will be delivered soon after it is finished. BTW, in order to avoid possible mistake happen to your order again, we advise you to leave a remark on the order when there is no solder mask layer or any other layer, this will help you to expedite the production as well, and it would be much appreciated. And if there is still any other problem, please contact with us at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]), you can get your problem sovled quickly and effiently here. Hope you have an nice day! Best Regard Eunice Yin JLCPCB.COM
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koosjr 2 months ago
Thanks Eunice. This is highly appreciated.
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martin 2 months ago
Your design doesn't include a mask layer! The factory made a best effort determination each time, but you have left it to chance. Expecting them to contact you seems unfair as well. The design is "OK" and respects their capabilities. They can't guess what your intent is if you leave out entire layers.
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digitalradiohacker 2 months ago
Wow, I happened on this post entirely by coincidence, and I'm glad I did, as I'm about to make another order that includes front panels. * For the sake of clarity, so that all who see this understand, the mask layer is the coloured layer yes? * When laying out a board with EasyEDA, I don't recall any option to remove the mask layer. Does EasyEDA "add" the mask layer by default? * At the ordering stage, I've selected a colour and that was that. Provided I stick with EasyEDA (default mask layer?) is that all I need to do? * Did perhaps the OP use another program to layout the board, and that "other program" did not add the mask layer by default?
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andyfierman 2 months ago
1. The coloured layer that koosjr is referring to is the Solder Mask layer.  2. Solder Mask is added automatically to all of the top and bottom sides of the boards except over pads and where the user has specifically requested the  copper to be exposed using the "Expose Copper" button when laying out a track in the PCB Editor. Please note however that if there is no copper on a side then it is up to the user to check in the Gerber files that a solder mask layer has been generated before submitting them for manufacture.  3. At the ordering stage, please see (2) above. 4. The OP was using EasyEDA. I recommend that you create a simple test PCB and check the Gerbers to satisfy yourself that all the relevant files are correctly generated for the intended design. Then do b.c. the same checks for your actual  design. Always document in your order submission any thing that may be different or unusual and request that you must be contacted if there are any queries or irregularities about your design.
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andyfierman 2 months ago
Remember that the Soldermask (.GTS, .GBS) files only show where the soldermask is removed (i.e. where the copper is exposed). Therefore, the soldermask files for a PCB with unbroken soldermask (i.e. no apertures in it) looks empty and appears blank in the **gerbv** gerber viewer. The .GTS and .GBS files however, **must** be present in the Gerber zip archive for soldermask to be applied.
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koosjr 2 months ago
@martin . JLCPCB has a step where a board is going through a check first before you can pay. That step is there to resolve any queries. Secondly, many people orders PCB's to make face plates. It is very durable and accurately manufactured. Surely this is not news for JLCPCB? So forgive me for having little sympathy if they get stumped by a board with no copper.
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koosjr 2 months ago
@andyfierman, You explanation is understood, but as said: Making face plates from PCB is common practice. Surely your Gerber generator can work around this simple issue?
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andyfierman 2 months ago
@koosjr, I'm not being slope shouldered here but this is a question for someone other than me simply because I don't know about the underlying process of generating Gerber files. My comment above about what files are generated and need to be present was based on trying out a very simple test project to see what was generated by default for a bare pcb with nothing on it other than a couple of holes and through board cutouts.
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martin 2 months ago
@koosjr Not a board with no copper. A board with _no mask_! And yet you expect a mask.
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msahar 2 months ago
and still calling it a PCB :p
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koosjr 2 months ago
@martin , Choosing a colour for a PCB adds money to the quote, and I paid for it. It is that simple. That money was NOT subtracted from my quote when it was approved. So, no solder mask, but the colour was chosen as black, creates a discrepancy. In the approval process, this discrepancy was evident. I am sorry, if this system allows one to choose a colour with no solder mask in the Gerber file, I am fully at my rights to expect that I can select the colour and get it.
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koosjr 2 months ago
@msahar , what would you call it? If the thing is manufactured from PCB materials, in the same process as all the other boards, it sure as hell is a PCB.
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koosjr 2 months ago
@andyfierman , like you I am also not 100% up to speed about how Gerbers are Generated. The specific approval step implemented by JLCPCB, is there to resolve discrepancies that can arise from this and I guess it is because Gerber generation is not perfect yet and probably will never be. To resolve discrepancies, does require input from the designer.
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andyfierman 2 months ago
Please see my post in: [https://easyeda.com/forum/topic/Gerber-Generator-not-creating-bottom-solder-mask-properly-a0b2833339464b73851aa60237c8e157](https://easyeda.com/forum/topic/Gerber-Generator-not-creating-bottom-solder-mask-properly-a0b2833339464b73851aa60237c8e157)
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cjohnson 2 months ago
@koosjr This is one of very few times that JLCPCB has contacted my prior to starting production on a board layout for questions. I will say, if nothing else, they are cracking down on trying to ensure you get what you want.
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koosjr 1 month ago
@cjohnson, Glad to hear that. That is all that is needed.
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jonchandler 1 month ago
@koosjr If it "sure is hell is a PCB", then you have to include ALL the layers you want manufactured.  Maybe someone will _guess_ at your intent but if you don't include ALL the necessary files, you don't have any right to expect people will guess correctly. If you don't include solder mask layers, you may not get solder mask.  You are at fault. If you have no copper layers, you should still include the copper layer files, and a note that says there is no copper.  Why?  Because otherwise, people think you forgot the copper layers and may reject your order or delay it while they ask for clarification.
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koosjr 1 month ago
@jonchandler , Sorry, I am just a stupid Mechanical Engineer coming from a half third world country. I mostly spend time on primary school stuff like pshychrometrics, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, BIMS modeling and solid modeling. I only work on small Multi-Billion Rand projects in my country. Born in the days where there was no desktop computers in homes, I am a bit old school. I still hit buttons on my HP-48G and do my PID maths and Solar Angles calculations by hand on paper to check the answers of computer simulations written by Germans and Americans. Strangely doing it this way I have found some serious bugs in world leading software packages for our industry - which they gladly rectified. I got free perpetual licences for some of that efforts. When I was younger, I and my colegues had to write our own software to speed up our desings. Turbo Pascal nogal. There was no internet to download it form back then. In fact, I can only expereince the joy of a 50 Mbps Fibre at my home for the past month. It got it the very day they could make that first connection. FFS, in our country we first got TV in 1976 and cell phones only in 1994. I still work on MS-DOS with LPT-port dongles sometimes on software that was never ported to Windows and repairs systems for clients running since the early 1970's, still running on electro-mechanical controls. I still have to travel to places for work, in my 20 years old Land Rover where there still is no cell phone coverage and I cannot call for help, so I need something simple to repair. So, forgive me for being so unreasonable to think that old school curtecy of engaging with someone in the event of a misunderstanding, (in this case not being able to read a file generated by your own system, where the user had no input and where this matter had be raised countless time in the past), is still apllicable. Again, sorry for me thinking anything from FR-4 can be called a PCB if ordered from PCB design software. I am not a 10/10 on everything I can do. I can only manage a 7/10 on most of it. I do not have the luxury to be a specialist focussing in only one field.
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andyfierman 1 month ago
And to be fair, it is called EasyEDA  because it is supposed to be just that: easy. For everyone. Which means there will be lots of people who use it but who may have no background in electronic engineering and PCB design but who have a need and recognise that EasyEDA is a tool they can use to help them meet that need. And that means that there needs to be clear documentation and communication between the user/customer and EasyEDA/LCSC/JLCPCB staff at all levels of interaction. What this unfortunate incident and the ensuing thread has highlighted is that there is more that needs to be done to improve that documentation and information flow. One of the side effects of this is however that the more documentation that is produced, the more there is to read and many people are either unwilling to do that or are simply overwhelmed by the effort that it takes. Trying to take a more interactive approach to documentation by using things like pop-ups and help buttons can still fail with people either feeling annoyed by constantly being presented with questions, reminders and info boxes or just forgetting that they should click on the help button and not just assume that everything will just be ok. So I think Rule 1 is simply: **Communicate**. That means: 1. Customers must state clearly what they are trying to achieve when they order a PCB; 2. JLCPCB must verify that they have understood the customer's requirements;  3. Neither party must assume that the other knows what the end product will look like or how it will be manufactured;  4. Even if the question seems stupid or something seems obvious: **ASK**.
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