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TTL to RS485 using MAX485 - Capacitor voltage requests
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Simon Dermont 1 year ago
Hello everyone, I need to implement a TTL to RS485 converter into a project. This is the circuit diagram: ![MAX485-Module-Schematic.jpg](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/BUx96CkKl9Xujh0hxP2zL5MQ2YzTrru7eXdV15Xz.jpeg) I'm writing here in order to get more informations about C1 and C2 capacitors voltage. It is different if I use a 16v or 50v DC capacitor? Could you help me gave me the required informations or LCSC code related to these two capacitors? Thank you very much for your time and support. Best regards
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andyfierman 1 year ago
Always read the datasheets for capacitors. Electrolytic caps do not have very good lifetimes compared to ceramic or film caps. They are not very tolerant of over voltage event and their lifetimes can be significantly reduced by operatingvtgem near to their rated voltages. Accordingly they should always be chosen to have a large margin in their operating voltages. Ideally at least twice the operating voltage so a 5V supply would require at least a 10V rated cap. Increasing the voltage margin increases reliability and lifetime. It also tends to reduce the internal effective series resistance (esr) which is usually (but not always!) a good thing. So, try to choose the higher voltage  rated electrolytics in the largest package you can accommodate but keep an eye on the leakage current as this may increase with larger packages. The issues around choosing ceramic caps are more complex and so harder to describe but basically choose the highest voltage rated part in the physically largest package that you can accomodate. Try to get the best quality dielectric that you chosen capacitance is available in. Up to about 22nf should be available in the best dielectric of C0G or NP0. Larger capacitances come in X7R, X7S, then X5R and X5S. X7R is best with X5S being the poorest of the higher performance dielectric. Do not choose Y5V or X5U dielectric parts. This article explains some of the issues with the dielectrics of ceramic capacitors: [https://www.edn.com/temp-and-voltage-variation-of-ceramic-caps-or-why-your-4-7-uf-part-becomes-0-33-uf/](https://www.edn.com/temp-and-voltage-variation-of-ceramic-caps-or-why-your-4-7-uf-part-becomes-0-33-uf/)<br> <br> This goes into more detail: [https://info.knowlescapacitors.com/knowles-precision-devices-capacitor-basics](https://info.knowlescapacitors.com/knowles-precision-devices-capacitor-basics)
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Simon Dermont 1 year ago
@andyfierman so for example LCSC part #[C967612](https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-MLCC-SMD-SMT_FH-Guangdong-Fenghua-Advanced-Tech-1812B104K500NT_C967612.html) is better than #[C30926 ](https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-MLCC-SMD-SMT_FH-Guangdong-Fenghua-Advanced-Tech-0603B104K500NT_C30926.html), right?
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Markus_ee 1 year ago
Hi! C967612 is according to datasheet: 100nF, 50V, 1812, X7R, ±10% C30926 is according to datasheet: 100nF, 50V, 0603, X7R, ±10% So, there is no other difference than the physical size of the component. Choosing a component which is easy to solder physically with your current skills is the best option if you have enough space in the PCB. I would use basic parts library if you want JLCPCB to assemble those components for you. Basic parts library is found at: [https://jlcpcb.com/parts/basic_parts](https://jlcpcb.com/parts/basic_parts)<br> <br> Regards, Markus Virtanen HW / Electronics Designer
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andyfierman 1 year ago
@22simc22, @markus_jidoka, In this application the 50V X7R 0603 part should be fine but that is largely an educated guess because the parts you have identified are insufficiently specified in their datasheets to be able to make an informed choice. If you want to know why I say that then read on... :) "C967612 is according to datasheet: 100nF, 50V, 1812, X7R, ±10% C30926 is according to datasheet: 100nF, 50V, 0603, X7R, ±10% So, there is no other difference than the physical size of the component." There is another difference and that is in what is called the Voltage Coefficient of Capacitance (VCC) or the Voltage Dependence of Capacitance (VDC). Whilst in this application it may not matter, you need to look carefully at the graphs for Capacitance Change vs. DC Bias Characteristics of two parts like these. Unfortunately, the datasheets for the parts listed on LCSC do not give this information but to see what I am talking about, look carefully at the graphs for DC Bias and compare the capacitances at 5V of these two parts: **Kemet 100nF 50 V X7R 0603: ** [https://connect.kemet.com:7667/gateway/IntelliData-ComponentDocumentation/1.0/download/specsheet/C0603C104K5RACTU](https://connect.kemet.com:7667/gateway/IntelliData-ComponentDocumentation/1.0/download/specsheet/C0603C104K5RACTU)<br> <br> shows a capacitance reduction by about 2%. **Kemet 100nF 50 V X7R 1812: ** [https://connect.kemet.com:7667/gateway/IntelliData-ComponentDocumentation/1.0/download/specsheet/C1812C104M5RACTU](https://connect.kemet.com:7667/gateway/IntelliData-ComponentDocumentation/1.0/download/specsheet/C1812C104M5RACTU)<br> <br> shows a capacitance reduction by about 0.1%. The difference in capacitance at 5V is not great but if you were to operate these capacitors at higher DC voltages then you see how the actual capacitance of the 0603 part drops more compared to the larger packaged part. The physics of this is fairly simple. As MLCC manufacturing processes have improved over the years it has become possible to make the ceramic layers between the metal layers thinner and finer grained so that more capacitance can be squeezed out of the same number of layers. This makes the chips smaller so increasing yields and making it possible to create the same capacitance in a smaller package or a higher capacitance part in the same size package at the same operating voltages. As the spacing between the metal layers reduces however, the electric field strength between them increases. The Class 2 dielectric materials (X7R, X5R etc.) exhibit Ferroelectric behaviour. One effect of this is that at a given voltage across a capacitor, as the electric field strength across the ceramic layer increases then the dielectric constant of the material reduces. This reduces the capacitance. Whilst this affect has always been present in X7R and similar Ferroelectric type dielectric capacitors, because the ceramic layers were thicker, for a given voltage, the field strengths were lower so the effective reduction in capacitance compared to 0V DC bias was less than for a modern MLCC of the same voltage rating. Whereas older MLCCs used physically larger chip in the bigger packages and so had larger spacings between the layers, unfortunately, even using the package size is not a guarantee of reduced Capacitance change vs, DC Bias because there is also a tendency for manufacturers to use the same chip in capacitors of different package sizes so the VCC/VDC for an 0603 and for say a 1206 part of the same voltage rating may actually be the same. Choosing higher voltage rated parts is a more reliable way to achieve a lower VDC/VCC because if the parts are designed for a higher rated voltage then they will probably still have a higher spacing - and so a lower electric field strength between the layers - which will decrease the VDC/VCC at a given operating voltage compared to a lower voltage rated part.
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