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Change a through-hole component to the bottom layer but keep pin orientation.
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mwon 3 years ago
Hi, I'm working with a 2x20 through-hole component available at JLCPCB (C35165) but I'm having problems with the pin orientation. My problem arrives when I put the C35165 to the bottom layer. This is the component's schematics: <br> <br> ![Screen Shot 2021-08-02 at 11.08.51.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/VyM6DhjPCnkqxMdsFQuS56rFVCzf0xQSeHgbQp1L.png) This is the PCB when the component is in the (default) top layer: ![Screen Shot 2021-08-02 at 11.09.11.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/ggwhEAlZYmXjV4bdz4H43wkXObJPyIyq2cDeiGho.png) And the respective 3D view: <br> ![Screen Shot 2021-08-02 at 11.09.32.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/BRTLdLrvURneF2o6VzD1adOzB8mmDToBQsYKIqXa.png) <br> Now, I want to put it in the bottom layer but I can't find a way to flip and keep the same pin position. This is the PCB when I put it to the bottom layer and flip it 180º: <br> ![Screen Shot 2021-08-02 at 11.10.16.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/9NS1aafYVoGLHKpEs5zH6enJn2agnElaun2nKOSn.png) And the corresponding 3D view: ![Screen Shot 2021-08-02 at 11.10.28.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/AF5cDSAjlXrHi3we4t6kgheDhEZ3XrHzPOY2kg1U.png) As you can see, the pin 1 position is not correct. So, how can I keep the pin 1 in the correct position and configure the component to be soldered in the bottom layer? I know that one solution would be to generate a custom symbol but I'm wondering if there is in EasyEDA any feature that would allow me to flip the component and keep the pin orientation. <br> <br>
Comments
andyfierman 3 years ago
I'm not sure if I understand your question but I think you are confused about what happens when you swap a part from the top to the bottom sides (or vice-versa) of a PCB. Note that both views of your PCB are as seen looking down on the top layer of the board. Try this: Pick up your connector and mark pin 1 on the case in white marker or a bit of masking tape. With both hands resting on a table, hold it at each end between finger and thumb of each hand, with the pins are pointing downwards. Consider the X axis to be the line along the connector between your two hands and the Y axis to be in the same plane as the table but at right angles to the X axis. Note the position of pin 1. According to your pictures pin 1 should be in the lower left corner. Now rotate it 180 degrees about it's long axis (like rolling a pencil between finger and thumb) so that the pins are pointing upwards. Note the new position of pin 1. If you started with pin 1 in the lower left corner, after this rotation, it should now be in the upper left corner. That is exactly what has happened in you PCB and is exactly what you should expect. Keeping both hands still resting on a table, if you now rotate the connector 180 degrees then pin 1 will end up in the lower right corner. You must remember that in terms of Footprints on a PCB then the only valid actions are rotate in the XY plane and swap sides (which is actually a rotation in the Z plane). Horizontal or vertical flipping makes no sense (except under certain circumstances which are discussed elsewhere in the forum and that do not appear to be what you require anyway).
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mwon 3 years ago
Thanks for the example @andyfierman. I believe understand what happens when I swap a component from top to bottom. However, I think the default rule is more fitted to SMD components. If possible do the simple experiment: 1\. Create a new project 2\. Add the schematic symbol of C35165 3\. Convert it to PCB 5\. Swap the component to the bottom layer \(because you want the assembly process to solder it from bottom to top\) Now, as it is, you can't find a solution to have a match between the pins positions of the connector with the RPI pinout (pin 1 upper left corner)
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andyfierman 3 years ago
@miguelwon, Your example does not illustrate your point because to see what is happening there must be something else connected to the pins. At least nets, preferably to some other components which are not being swapped. How about this as an example: <br> <br> ![image.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/Q35rFBv5zzBI3p8fR3vFxyY2TkEArAinYAbTNumo.png) Here's the PCB with both connectors on the top layer: ![image.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/l7nVwntLcfS2xOdbGQimt9UoyRy75XWvt1RkaXpj.png) And here's the PCB with J2 swapped onto the bottom layer: ![image.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/YMy7PvNyEY35GQs09VAhW23lvsydmiRlipfLmRC6.png) Note the DRC errors and ratlines for the - now wrongly - connected pins on J2. And then J2 rerouted to account for the pin position change due to the top to bottom layer swap: ![image.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/6OGF9cmFI78TC0SbEoNitaRyqAif3Qlxpn3AIZ1n.png) <br> <br>
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pommie 3 years ago
If you want to solder it on the bottom without changing the orientation then leave it on the top and when you get the boards, solder it on the bottom. Or did I misunderstand? Mike.
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andyfierman 3 years ago
That may be OK for hand assembly but beware that if you ask JLCPCB to assemble the board for you then the connector will probably end up on the wrong side of the board. Writing notes to them on the order and in the PCB file should not be considered a reliable means of specifying deviations in the construction of a board from that defined by the EasyEDA Project files themselves.
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pommie 3 years ago
They only assemble on one side? Or did I miss something again?
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andyfierman 3 years ago
EasyEDA can design - and JLCPCB will accept - boards with component footprints placed on both sides. However, JLCPCB do only single sided assembly and that includes SMT and through hole parts. The assembled side depends on the user's choice of which side they wish to be assembled at the time they place the order. The default is whichever side has the most surface mount components on it. However... In the case of a board with components on only the top side except for a through hole part that is to be fitted on the bottom of the board, if that through hole part is shown in the design files as being on the top layer and is included in the BOM submitted to JLCPCB then if JLCPCB are asked to assemble the PCB (i.e. an order is placed for a PCBA) then that component **will** be assembled on the top layer. If the part is shown in the design as being in the bottom layer then in the above case it is possible that the part may still be fitted on the top side due to the constraint shown below. For the avoidance of doubt in cases like this, it is probably best to exclude the bottom layer parts from the BOM anyway. <br> Please see **Assembly Types** in: [https://jlcpcb.com/smt-assembly](https://jlcpcb.com/smt-assembly)<br> <br> ![image.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/eTISu4JTYZiKdOWpLkH5IeVMVRw0RwBac3o4TOwZ.png) <br> and: ![image.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/sztgUx7GSCfMDyqPLfjj6I0FDXMexS2bRqKbD5Ee.png) in: [https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/83-smt-assembly-faqs](https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/83-smt-assembly-faqs)<br> <br> and: ![image.png](//image.easyeda.com/pullimage/wwTN4KVSJviT41GruEqr4a2hmBYP2jWPdnR6VKt4.png) in: [https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/99-does-the-red-dot-means-pin-1-in-the-placement-previewer](https://support.jlcpcb.com/article/99-does-the-red-dot-means-pin-1-in-the-placement-previewer)<br> <br>
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whitemyth 11 months ago
wow 2 years later and still no-one answered his question.  simple question, how do you move a female header to the bottom layer - while keeping the pin one the same on your schematic vs physically inverting pin1, which is what happens when you drop to second layer, and rotate to the correct position.
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andyfierman 11 months ago
@whitemyth, The OP answered their own question by saying: "I know that one solution would be to generate a custom symbol" and it is implicit in the detailed description of what happens when flipping a Footprint that the answer to the second part of their statement: "but I'm wondering if there is in EasyEDA any feature that would allow me to flip the component and keep the pin orientation." is no, there is no specific feature in EasyEDA to do that other than, as the OP has recognised, to create a dedicated Footprint with a reversed pin numbering. There are other posts in the forum about how to mount modules such as Arduino Shields "the right way up" but on the underside of the board which also requires a similar sort of pin swapping.
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andyfierman 11 months ago
@whitemyth, The action to mirror a footprint is only available in EasyEDA Pro: When moving the component AND press X or Y key at the same time, a dialogue box pops up and asks you if you wish to mirror the component.
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Sergey Tarasov 5 months ago
I have the same prob.  I mixed up the smd header connector side, but the position and pin order is correct, so I need only to change the side. In the lite editor it automatically flips the headers and the mirror tool becomes inactive.
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andyfierman 5 months ago
I'm not 100% sure but I think Pro does allow mirroring of a Footprint and therefore of the pins.
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