Hi  Tonydenson, Welcome to EasyEDA. We do not recommend the creation of even simple PCBs without first creating a schematic. Please see: https://easyeda.com/forum/topic/The_best_way_to_design_a_PCB_in_EasyEDA-ThR3pwqIC If you really do not want to do it this way then you must use the SHIFT+F library search to find suitable PCB footprint packages and then look at: https://easyeda.com/forum/topic/How_does_the_Connect_Pad_to_Pad_tool_work_-JgQO0Ay7H And: https://easyeda.com/forum/topic/Essential_checks_before_placing_a_PCB_order-UuohztL3l You must draw a board outline too. Please also look at the Tutorial. :)

You misunderstand me. I asm not trying to bypass the schematic stage, in fact I am right in the middle of drawing the schematic - but I don't know how to specify holes. In fact the link you posted says, and I quote "This is why holes should be included in the schematic" but does not explain how to define them.

If you specify a DIP or other through hole part it makes the holes. If you want to make feedthroughs (say, to build a ground plane) then you can click the little circle with the line sticking out of it and place all you need just by cliking them into place. I'm new to this too, but this is what I have actually managed to pick up on. The problem seems to be so many parts are badly specified and unroutable. See my post about this - I have no idea what to do, and it will likely take a day or two to get someone here to reply. But through holes are easy - after you place it you can also adjust the hole and pad sizes.

Perhaps I should explain what I am doing. My PCB will have a relay board sitting on top of it and this relay board has screw terminals from which I am running wires to the PCB. What I am after is how to define the points where those wires will run to and be soldered in.

If you want anything to appear on a PCB then it must be included in the schematic. Therefore you need to find or create a schematic symbol for that part which is associated with the desired PCB footprint. In the case of a say a plated through circular M3 clearance hole then you need to find a suitable schematic symbol which is already assigned an M3 clearance PCB footprint. If such a symbol and/or PCB footprint does not exist then you can either edit the nearest available or create a new one. If you look at the `Tesseract`, `Uberclamp` or `Automotive 12V to 5V USB power supply` projects you will find they include such holes in the schematic. They will help you find these parts in `More Libraries...`.

I have changed the design a little so I no longer need those holes. However, I still have a need for mounting holes to mount my relay board on top of the PCB. I understand I use Pads for mounting holes - however do I just put these on at the PCB stage rather than the schematic ?

It does not matter if they are purely for mechanical or if they are for electrical purposes: to avoid having to replace them in the PCB every time you update the schematic, they should go in the schematic. There's nothing special about the `Hole` tool. It is just a quick way to make a round pad with a zero annulus (which the pad tool does not allow). If you want electrical connectivity to a round hole then use the `Pad` tool and make the `Net` property of the pad the same as the net it connects to.

I'm really confused now. I went to a lot of trouble to lay out all my components on the schematic in the exact physical location I want them. When I then converted it to a PCB the result was just a complete jumble of all the components piled up in one part of the board, and I had to lay them all out again. Also, surely if I put holes on the schematic they will likewise bear no resemblance position wise to the PCB.

And this also means that once I have repositioned all the components for the PCB I can't go back and make minor changes to the schematic as I will have to lay the whole thing out again. Surely I am missing something basic here.

I'm also not sure what you mean by the Hole Tool. I can't see it in the list of wiring tools, and the only ones I can find are components but when I try and place one I get the error "cannot place parts into this document"

Why should there be any correspondence between the position of symbols in a schematic and that of packages on a PCB? A Schematic is like the London Underground Tube Map. It is a topological representation of the circuit drawn to make it easy to read. A PCB layout is a practical placement of the components to fit on the board and meet certain criteria for physical location and electrical connectivity and compatibility. You can expect some correspondence on the PCB to the schematic but by no means an exact one. I misled you a bit about the Hole tool. You use that to place a hole on a PCB. You cannot use it i. The schematic and you cannot use it to define a PCB Lib (footprint). To place a hole in a schematic you have to define a schematic symbol. Then you have to find or create a PCB footprint using the tools in the PCB Lib editor. Then assign your footprint to your schematic sy https://easyeda.com/Doc/Tutorial

bol. (Sorry, accidentally hit send).

symbol. (Too early in the morning: can't type, can't spell.)

I'm still struggling to understand the typical workflow here. I can understand your analogy with the London underground map. But I still don't understand therefore how I can make a minor change to the schematic without a major re-layout exercise with the PCB. So, am I right in thinking that you get the circuit as good as you can with the schematic, but any subsequent changes are done at the PCB layout level.

That's what the `Update PCB` button in the Schematic Editor and the `Import Changes...` button in the PCB Editor is for. It imports the changes and leaves everything else unchanged. :)

Thanks for that, it explains everything. However, it would be nice if this sort of thing was spelled out in the tutorial, it's so obvious when you know, but not when you don't.